VideoBleach Forum

What?!?!? No way! This cupcake beat someone! Man, Kudos to Kubo, didnt see that victory coming!

10/10! Any chapter with fighting from start to end is a win in my book!

I really thought he had his rank cuz of wealth.
Then I saw him on the guy's head and I was all, "Holy sh1t!"

I thought that there must be something to him otherwise him being there would just be to take space. And Soi Fon is smarter than to picking a VC for his wealth

That surprised me too, but in the good way. At least now I know that Soul Society has even bigger chance to win  ;D

Except for the fact that most of the baddies(excluding Halbiel for Hitsu) are only fraccions and not actual espadas and they are sometimes having a little bit of trouble with them...

Perhaps, but SS has strength in numbers. Which is why I almost certain whenever the vizards drop in they will fight against SS to quell their grudge

vizards grudge is with Aizen... not SS

Eh.... It's obvious SS and Vizards will win... But I'm sure Aizen knew that his Espadas weren't enough to destroy SS, I think he has some other plans.

vizards grudge is will SS, not aizen. check the pendulum series near the end.

No, they said Aizen

I think you're the one who should be going to read the Pendulum Arc again...

Why would it be with SS? I mean, Aizen set them up to it, and they know it? Why would they go after SS, not Aizen? If they knew it was Aizen, wouldn't they go after him?

You'd have to be pretty thick to think they're after SS, not Aizen.

The vizards grudge is with both Aizen and SS
when Hiyori (the Rino) is first introduced she says she hates humans and that she hates Shimigami

You only say SS based on that alone

They know it's foolish to go after SS, but they've no true grudge towards SS, just a basic hatred because they were the ones who convicted them. But, even so, they know who set them up to be convicted, and that person was Aizen.

They have a strong grudge towards Aizen, not SS, they only "hate" SS, because they carried out the conviction. In reality, we always end up hating the one who did something bad to us directly, not the one behind the scenes, but when we find out, we have a much more powerful hatred towards them.

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/315.12/18/

go reread it, you'll then understand you have no idea what you're talking about.

"We really are indepted to Kiskuke. And to Aizen"

So this means they have no grudge against AIZEN or KISKUKE.


thick headed . . . rofl. learn to read . . . .

Kiskune is not SS

SS had done nothing for the Vizords, excpet sentance them to death, declare them crimals, and everthing about them is against SS law
horay lets be best friends

Insult after we're done

Notice that "Kisuke" was said in a calm, kind manner, while "Aizen", needed a whole new panel. And with the hands of all the Vizard, holding their weapons. This may mean nothing on first glance, but what does holding a weapon mean? In this case, it means a hatred, wanting to "kill". In this case, wanting to kill Aizen, as the word with the speech bubble is in the center.

They were indebt to Kisuke, because he helped them begin a life in the Real World, and they were indebted to Aizen, because he was the one who put them into that position.

Moreover, there are two ways one can use indebted. One, it's a kind fashion, like you owe them a favor. And two, a hateful manner, because you want to pay them back for whatever bad they've done to you. In this case, Shinji used both, the kind fashion on Kisuke, as represented by the "no-need" of a dramatic new panel to say his name, and the hateful manner used on an entirely different panel, with some visual language, of holding weapons and the name being centered.

Learn English advanced and Art, and you'll know all this. Words on their own are merely that, but Manga, is all about expressing through, not just the words, but also and majorly the artwork. The words are only there to help with dialogue.

I did have the feeling I didn't need to say this to you, but I did, for it seems all you can do is read and write. You can't understand any deeper meanings. Besides, it wasn't even that deep.

You clearly are nowhere near my level

EDIT: I kid you not, you clearly need to keep silent. All you said was, "check the pendulum series near the end", but I said, "I think you're the one who should be going to read the Pendulum Arc again". The meaning of this?

You only acknowledged the end of it, but I acknowledged the entire thing. The end of it alone can be misinterpreted, which you have clearly shown a stunning example of, but if it's the entire thing, you'd have to be extremely dumb to misinterpret it then. Actually you don't even need to KNOW all that I've said above, to know what they meant after finishing the Pendulum Arc.

dude is completely wrong and offered no proof he was correct.

Kisuke was exiled along with the Vizards nimb nuts. Kisuke is Hat Clogs in the green for u noobs.

Give it a rest, they dislike SS for their actions but they want to kill Aizen.

I suppose you think your silly amount of posts on an anime board translates into greater education. I cant express how wrong you are.

I also doubt you're more educated than me, since I am presenting my masters thesis in December.

With this said, I have been talking to L this whole time, not zombie or Urban, since he had to demean himself by calling me thick headed. But anyways, heres my rebuttal.

Now to the passage in question.

Since we are in agreement with how they feel about Kiskuke, I will move on to Aizen.

It was Aizen who gave them their powers through his experiments. And however reckless Aizen's experiments were, they still gave Hit and co hollow powers. Aizen gave them the ability, and Kiskuke saved them from being 'dealt with as hollows' nursed them to health.

On the panel that they mention Aizen they were not gripping their weapons, they grab their swords in the next panel on the way out (presumably to the battle)

And SS was going to kill them merely for being made into hollows without their consent.

Now you tell me who YOU would be pissed off at, if you were in their shoes?  The guy who gave you special powers, or the group of people who sentenced you to death? My guess would be the latter.





And furthermore L, I do see from another perspective why the vizards could be mad at Aizen for making them into hollows. But I have no idea why you make it an effort to be a condescending ass saying why you are right, like another opinion or an alternative viewpoint from yours HAS to be wrong and should be dealt with immense ridicule. How can you foster a free thinking community and encourage dialogue with the members if you slam everything you dont agree with as being false, like you're the one writing Bleach?

Now now, did I say anything about post size? Moreover, if this is all you can muster, then you should re-do Year 9 and up. And all your master thesis proves, is how long you've been educated for, what's so good about being educated for a long time, if you can't understand something of a year 10 level? It's probably even lower.

And, once again you prove yourself under my level, I said, "you'd have to be pretty thick", I didn't call you a thick head even once, I merely said, in a simpler, perhaps I admit, rougher way, "You misinterpreted this, you'd have to be dumb that that's true".

So anyways, onwards to the actual topic.

Now, I ask you one simple question. Did they WANT these powers? They clearly didn't, did they? Of course, Aizen was only using them as guinea pigs, he didn't want to do them a favor or anything, if anything he likely assumes them as dead, dependent on Soul Society's conviction as the basis for this assumption.

Now, onto SS, they convicted them, not because Shinji and co gained hollow powers without consent, it was because they didn't allow it. And who gave them those powers, as a means of experimenting? Aizen did, and did they want it? No they didn't, they were content with living their lives as Shinigami until the day they died. But Aizen ruined that for them, now thanks to Urahara, they can continue to live, in exile, but they endure it, so that they may slay Aizen.

So, it's not, "the guy who gave you special powers", it's, "the guy who ruined your life".

Also, it's not, "the group of people who sentenced you to death", it's "the group of people who sentenced you to death, because that guy who ruined your life set you up to it".

You are clearly misinterpreting... Heavily.


It's not that I'm as you say, "making an ass of myself", to prove I'm right. It's to prove you wrong. In other words, our roles are actually reversed, you're the one who is trying to prove yourself right, I'm proving you wrong.

Yours was not another viewpoint, it was a misinterpretation, there is a clear difference between the two. And dealing with other views and theories or whatever, with immense ridicule? Slamming things I don't agree with as false? Hmmm... Simple question, are you the one who is writing Bleach then? And comes with the simple answer, no, which is the same as mine, which is, no.

Now did I say I was the one writing Bleach? Did I say I knew everything? I may show it, but that is how I am. You're misinterpreting, not presenting a new theory or viewpoint.

And your reply in itself exemplifies my point.

Your claim to my misinterpretation of the reading CANNOT be backed by YOUR interpretation of the reading!

Ok, so here is a recap

The literature, it reads, 'We really are indebted to Kisuke and . . . Aizen'

What I took from this is that the vizards have no qualms with Kisuke or Aizen, but with SS, and I stated why.

What you took from this is that the vizards have no qualms with Kisuke, but have problems with Aizen, not SS, and you stated why.

Now show me, without you interpreting the manga, where it says verbatim that "The Vizards have a grudge against Aizen".


Passage not found.


Ok, so then what? We pull from the readings and formulate our own opinions.

You say they hate Aizen because they ruined their lives, had them cast out of SS, etc etc. Ok, i'll give you that, you have a valid point.

I conjecture that the Vizards are not exactly pleased with Aizen for being used, but are grateful for the powers but have issues with being sentenced to death. Thats the basis of my point.

You retort, saying they never asked for these powers, which is true, but they never say they are not happy WITH these powers.

Yes, Aizen was not DIRECTLY doing any favors, but I am yet to see/read where they hate their powers.


To stack up roles, I would rank "Guy who ruined your life" under "People who sentenced you to death".

And how about a more accurate label, lets call SS "The people who sentenced you to death whimsically and without a proper trial"




But I digress. My point is that you cannot say that I am misinterpreting the passage without backup coming verbatim from the source. And to show my true openness to this matter, if you can show me in the manga/anime why they would not have a grudge against SS I will gladly withdraw my statement and admit to misinterpretation.

Well, seeing as this is going nowhere, and instead of standing here uselessly, arguing with you, let's open a poll, and let the forum decide

Admit it, our egos won't let us accept anything we think is wrong

I think that that could have been discussed without any insults and just a good old debate...